John: Now you have practiced Qinway Qigong for quite some time. Could you introduce yourself, your job and education, so that we can get to know you?

Ron: Of course! I'm happy to do that. I've been doing Qinway Qigong for the last year and a half. During that time, I have worked in my job. I'm president & CEO of a California licensed mental health HMO. We have 500 corporate clients, some very large ones with thousands of employees across the country, some are small local companies. I have 80 employees, and I'm able to continue my work, and I found a tremendous amount of improvement in my work life while I have been practicing Qinway Qigong over the last year and a half.

John: How about your educational background, can you tell us a bit?

Ron: Absolutely! I went back to school when I was 30. I got my bachelor's degree in psychology. I got master degree from USC in psychology, and I got a Ph.D. from a professional school in psychology. I'm licensed as family counselor. life is good.

John: How about your experience in spiritual practice?

Ron: Like so many people, I was brought us in a traditional US religion of Catholic church. I had very little affinity for that. I found little connection in that, and drifted away until I was almost 30. Then I got involved in a self help group, and discovered that I really wanted to a relationship with a higher power. since that time, I have traveled the world, and have exposed myself to many many ancient religions and spiritual practices.John: Great! how about your experience in healing? Ron: My healing experience in this life started in some 22 years ago when my wife was told that she would need a liver transplant within a year or two. There was nothing more that the traditional allopathic doctors could do. This was unacceptable to me. I'm the kind of guy that, you know, just gets up and goes, and make something happen. So I started looking outside the box. The only box I knew was traditional medicine. I looked in the phone book for healers, for spiritual healers, energy healers and faith healers. I spent lots of money. I traveled around the whole world, and studied with all kinds of people. Some were charlatans. Some sucked a lot of money out of me. Some were for real. Some thought they were for real, and they weren't. I had a really wild and fun experience in investigating healing. I have acquired some healing skills myself, even though I realized that Ron the person, the personality, really doesn't do anything other than opening the door for the signal, for the healing from higher beings to come through to do the healing. I started facilitating dissolving tumors with the medical qigong that I learned in the mid 90s, laying on a hand to relieve suffering from chemotherapy, helping people with knees and joints, and all sorts of stuffs have happened. I really just do this with people that know me, family, friends, employees sometimes, and family members of employees. I could tell you stories that could take hours. It is really a quite wonderful wonderful life.

John: Why did you come to Qinway Qigong then?

Ron: This was an amazing thing. I learned to do all these fun things and healing things, and my body was receiving very little benefits. When I heard about Qinway Qigong that the place in me that was always hungry would be satisfied energetically, then I knew inside that this is a very very important missing piece for Ron. That's what brought me to Qinway Qigong.

John: We know that you overweight at that time. So how much did you weight then, and how was your body condition look like?

Ron: I'm big. I'm 6'4". So the 275 pounds that I weighed didn't really look obese yet. It did look heavy. I was bloated. I was hard to walk around. I was starting to have the effects of that weight. I was feeling more tired, I was looking more tired. The benefits with Qinway Qigong started immediately. I started losing weight immediately. In the past, all of the weight loss programs that I did, for years and years and years, always left me feeling deprived. And with Qinway Qigong, that disappeared. The feeling of being deprived disappeared. That was a huge difference, and one of the reasons that Qinway Qigong was so successful for me and many others.

John: At that time, were you aware of the potential danger of overweight, and your energy structure, as later Qigong master Qinyin pointed out, was upside down to some extent?

Ron: To some extent I was aware of it. It was kind of like a freight train rolling downhill without any brake though. You are aware of it, but you really don't know what to do, where it turns to, and you are hoping that things will work out.

John: So how much weight did you lose, and how much do you weigh now?

Ron: That was a really personal question, john. You know, the weight is between 90-95 pounds. This morning I weigh 183 pounds I started close to 275. It is a huge difference. The weight is one of the things that happened. However, within that, there is so much more.

John: For example, how is your body condition now?

Ron: My body condition is much stronger, much younger. The quality of my skin is 10 times better. I probably look 10 to 15 years younger. I get unsolicited compliments from people all the time, people that know me and people that don't know me. More people, more strangers come up to me. It feels like just to be close to me. When I'm out in the store, they come up to ask me some questions. Or they think I'm somebody they used to know, or they should know. Or that I'm an actor, or something. Some sort of reason. I think that this is just because of the energy. I know that my body is rejuvenating. I see my hair is starting to grow back in dark, in the front and some in the back. The top of my head is slowly starting to generate hairs again. It is just an automatic byproduct of the qigong exercises.

John: That's really great! can you compare Qinway Qigong with other systems that you have done before, in terms of how much time it takes, how quickly you can make progress, and the benefits?

Ron: There are a lot of good systems out there for people that are at all different levels of readiness and different karma. And the time is really relatively comparable. I have done practices over the years that was from an hour to 5 hours a day in other systems. The results were - the result with Qinway Qigong is very very very clear. The body starts getting healthier and in balance, it is something that is tangible, and you can see immediately. From that, the other deeper benefits and the understanding started to come in. A lot of the other systems, the observable benefits are less available to actually see it and experience. And you kind of think it is better, people are better, people are get healing etc. I have not done any system though that actually delivers the benefits home first, and then able to share more with others that is for real.

John: Sounds very interesting! can you also compare Qinway Qigong with other systems that you did fasting before and there is a Qinway Qigong bigu technique? Can you compare these two?

Ron: There is really no comparison at all. The fasting that I did before was like hanging on a wall with my fingernails. It was tough, and it was painful, the feeling of being deprived was constant. The bigu process, which is really an ancient Daoist technique that requires more skills than I have any clue about to create a qi field for that to happen. And I have a little bit understanding of what is involved in that. The bigu process that fills the place that is always hungry is way different than fasting. Bigu is not fasting. Bigu is an energized, we call it a fasting, it is really learning to eat qi, to have qi to come directly into the body that by the time you have done digesting food, you have maybe 3% or 4% of the real energy of that food that goes into the body. The rest of it is all waste. The bigu and qigong actually brings the qi directly into the body to use directly without having to digest or get rid of. The technology is so advanced. There really isn't any comparison to fasting or any other processes.

John: Excellent! When we compare Qinway Qigong with other systems, can you also share your experience and understanding about the Qinway Qigong system's multiple values and benefits that are far exceeding its program fee of $3,600?

Ron: This is an important point. Different people are at different levels to be able to appreciate the relationship between the energy, the healing and the fee of $3,600 for 72 hours. The other programs that charge, whatever they charge, whether it is $100, $200, or $300, $500, or $1,000 for 3 days, are all mental gymnastics. For those that can feel energy and move beyond what their mind talks about, this is a bargain at $3,600. Normally it would take a traditional monk or person that had 10 years of their life to practice 12 hours a day for 10 years. To come for 72 hours, and walk away with years of experience, and it isn't that somebody can walk into a space and spend 72 hours. They can't walk into any space to do it. I don't know and I never heard of another bigu master that can set up an energy qi field that would allow people to go from having a one gallon container to a four gallon container in 72 hours to be able to take in so much qi and so much information that they can then move forward and benefit from the experience. So the qi field and the work the bigu master - Master Qinyin - does for the students that are here is beyond description.

John: We got some people that are interested in the Qigong program, but they said it is too expensive, because it is $3,600. why do think it is worth the money and effort?

Ron: Whether it is expensive or not is a relative question. Yes, $3,600 to write a check or put it on a credit card might feel like a lot of money. It was, and it wasn't for me. Money is part of a blessing that I have in this life. I think that one way that a lot of people that maybe have tighter finance than I did might look at this is that - yeah, it might be easy to pay $100, $200 or $300 for a one day, two day or three day workshop. The question is what are you going to get. If you did a hundred one day or two day or three day workshops, you spent a whole lot more money. And I did hundreds of workshops for 100, 200 or 300 dollars. They all didn't add up to what I got in the first 24 hours of the 72 hour retreat at Qinway Qigong. Yeah, money, and budgeting and saving, if you can see through to the bigger picture, and appreciate the long term benefits of Qinway Qigong. The $3,600 is not only really a good investment, it is relatively low cost compared to the total of what I spent on much less expensive workshops. So everybody has to kind of look at it, and feel through too what is the long term value here.

John: Thank you very much. In terms of value and benefits, what would you say about your physical benefits that you have received, your body weight, your hair, teeth, energy level, any other physical aspects?

Ron: Yeah, those are the easy ones. It is really obvious that when your hairs start growing back in dark, you can see that it is dark. If you lose 30, or 50 or 100 pounds, you could see that. What is behind that though? One of the things that became really apparent to me in about six weeks was that there are two kinds of hunger. One hunger is the memory of how good the food tastes. That is an attachment and an addiction to food. The other kind of hunger is what the body actually is calling for in terms of nutrition and nourishment. This is actually a very small amount of food. Most people can not tell the difference, and get in a habit, both social and individual habit of eating. Eating is producing a lot of pleasure. You know what I'm talking about in terms of pleasure. The question is are you ready to turn in your pleasure for a higher level benefit. That is the real question.

John: Ok, how about spiritual benefits, those that seem invisible and higher benefits?

Ron: The spiritual benefits - yes, maybe they are invisible compared to weight loss and other things, yet they are just as tangible to me. You know, John, I have been doing this for the last year and a half, the bigu energized fast. The detoxification process happens on many many different levels. Certainly getting the old-aged stools out of the large and the small intestines comes along with the weight, and getting those - the lining of the intestines cleaned down to the way it was when you were 6 or 7 years old, is most desirable and most beneficial from a health standpoint. And think about it, how much nutrition can you actually absorb through 3/8 of an inch or half inch of old-aged stool? You know, not too much. Your body can't absorb very much coming through all that. So most of the food that people are eating, other than the pleasure and the taste, is really not doing much for their body. So they eat more and more and more. The detox happens on many other levels also. The detox in cleaning the body, yes. And then there is also emotional detox. This is very very very important and apparent also. Emotional detox, I started noticing almost immediately also, mainly during the qigong exercises. Thoughts would start coming up of situations that happened 30 years ago, 50 years ago that I hadn't thought about in 30 or 50 years, just coming up. And during the qigong exercises, they come up and they go out. This sort of emotional releasing happens very naturally and painlessly. As that detox starts happening, there is deeper awarenesses that happen also, that produces a deeper sense of peace, peace of mind and comfort in work, in relationships etc etc. Another benefit that happens also - most people are totally unaware of the information overload. People are aware of information overload, they just aren't of how much of that is stored in the mind and the body. This detox starts happening also. The information storage starts to be deleted, and gotten out of the body. Again this shows up in a deeper peace and a deeper calm.

John: Thank you very much. You were already a healer when you came to Qinway Qigong, now did Qinway Qigong help you in any way to enhance your healing ability?

Ron: Yeah, I refer myself as a facilitator. I think that a person like me who has a fairly large ego would, you know, take more credit than credit is really due. I facilitate the healing, and it is not me that does the healing. And to get out of the way, and allow the healing to take place from the universal, from the higher beings, from God, however you want to look at it, is really what happens. And yes, the foundation or the background or the experience that I had with working with energy was greatly enhanced and increased. There were some very new techniques that I got with the Special Abilities Classes that were part of the 72 hour retreat that I have used really quite often. The remote diagnosis, which I had never done before, was very very easy for me to pick up. What I have seen in the class, it was also very easy for probably 95% of the people to pick up. So, yes, it was really quite amazing and fun, john.

John: Ok, I think that is really true. How about your experience and benefits as a teacher and teaching assistant for Qinway Qigong?

Ron: This is a blessing. It really is a blessing. When one starts teaching anything, whether it is auto mechanics or part of the 72 hour retreat, one has to go deeper into the understanding. I trust that if I get out of the way, the information is going to come through that can benefit others. This is what a teacher's job really is - to assist others. I really enjoy it. It has allowed me to become just so happy and excited during the 72 hour retreats when I'm participating as a teaching assistant. Because Ron the individual has no idea what is going to come out of Ron's mouth. And I'm equally excited and happy to hear what I say, you know, that really is just an unfolding of deeper information.

John: Wow, that is really amazing! Recently I heard that you just came back from a Trip to China with Qigong Master Qinyin. Can you tell us a bit about that too, some benefits?

Ron: The China tour, spiritual tour, was so much more than I imagined. It was also very intense. And it was enlightening from a standpoint of, you know, as far as Americans go, what I understood what the Chinese culture was like. While it was true, it was also more than you know the propaganda really allows people to understand. The Chinese people are very very hard working, so much more spiritual than I ever imagined. There are thousands of temples all throughout China. The government is starting to rebuild a lot of the temples that were destroyed earlier. And the cultural understanding coupled with the teaching assistant, and the Qinway Qigong system settled into a deeper affinity, a deeper understanding, a deeper appreciation, a deeper love for what is possible, what is being done, the tireless effort that Qigong master Qinyin and you john put out for the benefits of others. It is just really inspiring to me. I also, this is a huge added benefit. When I got back, I was so clear that a big piece of my unresolved karma was in fact finished. This clarity, while I didn't know exactly what it was, I felt so much more complete, completed with something that was very important for me to do in this life. That has allowed me, since I've been back, to also look at other areas of my life, and know that, well, that is done too, and that is done too. And in other ways, I've been asked to do a variety of things for a lot of different people. And it is so much easier for me to just see that, yes, this is for me to do, this isn't. I can do this, I want to do this. And all of this clarity is just comfort emanated from my trip to China. You know, we went to many different temples. I love the temples. I love the abbesses that we got to meet and got to study with. I fell in love with the trees and rocks in the temples. You know, the food was really really delicious. I had no clue what vegetarian food really was until I went to China. There are about a million different ways that you can cook vegetarian food, they are all good. So it was really an amazing experience for me.

John: Dr. Ron, we know that after you practiced and benefited from Qinway Qigong, you are now a Qinway Qigong representative. Could you explain why this Qigong retreat is always such a small class?

Ron: The 72 hour retreat is a very high level class in a closed qi field. This means that the students get individual attention. This means that grandmaster Qinyin starts working on the students' energy field as soon as the deposit is given. This is one of the reasons why the deposit is non-refundable. The work that master starts doing and does throughout the retreat is comprehensive. It is intense. And in order to shift from being addicted to food and the memory of food, and to open up to be able to start digesting qi directly into the body from the universe, many maybe thousands of adjustments have to be made over the course of 72 hours. So the classes has been small. They have been individual, 6 to 8 to 10 people per class. The individual attention that people get is a big part of it. At the same time, people have to have the karma in order to get here, and to be able to have this sort of high level class from grandmaster Qinyin.

John: Why this Qigong retreat has to be taught by Qigong Grandmaster Qinyin herself, and what is the importance that she is present?

Ron: I don't know anybody else right now that can make thousands of adjustments on people's energy field in advance of them needing it. Let alone pulling all of the knowledge and skills of Iching, of fengshui, of color and numerology, to mention just a few, that all have to be factored into the space, the closed qi field, and the individual student's participation in that qi field. So it takes a very high level master, a grandmaster, in order to be a bigu master. I would love to be able to do that myself for people. Can't do it! I don't have a thousand-gallon container yet. Maybe I have a hundred-gallon container, you know. If I get a thousand-gallon container at some point, maybe I will be able to do that. But I couldn't even begin to know what to do for that. Master, whether she is in the room that the students can see, or in her private room during the 72 hour retreat, she has got everybody right on the palm of her hand. And she knows what is going in, she is tuned in to the biological field, the energy field of everyone in that class during that whole 72 hours.

John: Can you briefly tell us about your experience in drinking the Yin-Yang Healing Tea, the famous tea?

Ron: The famous Yin-Yang Healing Tea. Yes, the tea, and I observed quite a bit also, the tea that we use when we were on bigu is one level of tea, a higher level. The tea that is available to the public is another level of the tea. The tea is energized by master Qinyin. That energy starts to facilitate a physical, emotional, spiritual detoxification, starts to do it immediately. I had employees of mine that are starting to get more curious seeing what I'm doing, I have 80 employees, starting to ask, well you know, what is with this tea now, can I get some tea. Some of them start detoxing so intensively that they got to change their clothes maybe once a day. They can work and everything. The benefits are very very very apparent, because the body starts cleansing itself (with) the Yang tea and the Yin tea.

John: So can you also tell us about your experience during your first 72 hour Qigong retreat, and what is its potential value?

Ron: The 72 hour Qigong retreat that I attended - I started July 9th of 2004. The first 24 hours was the roughest part of the whole thing. After I got past the first 24 hours, it felt like, you know, there was just so much more light, it was so much more easy. And it started to flow intensively. I think I lost 9 or 10 pounds over the first 3 days. And I loved it. I loved it. I repeated the 72 hour retreat as a student about 5-6 months later. It was really interesting and amazing to me that I picked up as much as I did the second time. It wasn't that I didn't have the information the first time. It was that there was just so much going on. The second time that I did, the more conscious clarity about what was going on came through to me. The most important thing though, is the I got the benefits. Later on I got the understanding. This is one of the things that I think so many of us Americans would have to get that the benefit comes by just following the instructions. You may not have the understanding of how it comes or why it comes. But the benefit comes. And then by reading the textbook maybe 6 or 8 or 10 or 15 times over and over and over, the understanding can come with it more automatically also. This is a benefit. This is part of what is available in the 72 hour retreat.

John: So how is your experience in doing the Qinway Qigong daily, I know you do it daily?

Ron: I do it daily. It is a joy. It is just a joy. I look forward to it. And you know, occasionally, my schedule has been such that, during international flight, I haven't been able to do my full routine. And it is something that I miss when I occasionally miss it. I have become so much more limber. I could not sit in a lotus position. I couldn't even sit in a half lotus position. I could barely even get my legs together when I started. I'm just so much more limber. My body feels very happy. I just know that the movements themselves are like music. It is like poetry. It is like the wind, you know, blowing softly through trees. It is just wonderful.

John: Ok, you've also been on this bigu for a long time over a year and a half. So just tell us your experience with bigu as time goes by?

Ron: Yes, bigu. Where do I start? Probably has something to do with past lives. I took to this process just like a duck takes to water. It is just a natural thing for me. While we would really describe it as a walking stick in that, you know, to produce an immortal body, while it might be exciting and attracting to some, it is really not the goal. The goal is enlightenment, to finish up what it is that we are here to do in this three dimensional reality. Bigu provides a walking stick. What is a walking stick? A walking stick helps you keep moving, to move over rough spots easier, to keep balance, to strengthen you as you are walking. It is an aid, a very important and very high level aid.

John: So I understand that after this long time fundamental rejuvenation bigu, so your energy is sometimes up and down, sometimes feel comfortable, uncomfortable, even when you do the bigu homework completely. So how do you get over those difficult times?

Ron: I get over it with joy and excitement of a 7 year old child. And changing one's mind is really one of the most amazing things that happens so naturally in this Qinway Qigong system. Changing one's mind about life, about what is easy, about what isn't easy, about what is good, about what is bad, and just knowing that the experiences that I had during the bigu and continue to have, while some of the body parts may hurt from time to time, a little or a lot, that it really is the energy moving through blocks. That's what it is. So it produces an excitement in me. Aha! Found another spot! Aha, we can get in there and clean that out, and bring it back into balance and rejuvenate it, make it young again. I'm excited about it when that sort of things happen. Quite honestly, most of the time, it was for a few hours. Sometimes it was for a few days. And that is it. It comes up, passes through, and it is gone. Additionally, grandmaster supports us when we are doing bigu. That means that we give her written reports of what is going on with our body, what the vital qi is attacking and what sorts of questions we might have throughout the bigu, and turn it in every week. And guess what? We get real answers, how about that, real answers!

John: So in light of your spiritual development after practicing Qinway Qigong, now what do think what is true love, and what is human being's true suffering? And why, how do you understand that sometimes Qigong Master Qinyin needs to require students very seriously?

Ron: Now we are going to get very philosophical here. What is true love, what is true suffering? I think it is all a story. On one level, it is a story, given apparent meaning. It is, in the long run, emptiness manifesting as something. We participate in it as if it is real. We have fun with it. We experience suffering. I think that my commitment to make a difference in people's lives, and it has been my commitment in the last 30 years, has benefited, deepened, broaden, and my understanding of a human being's capacity to be of service to others, to help others, to save others, to enlighten others with information, with practices, has increased tremendously. I see many ways that I have been able to influence people, and I have been able to assist people. And things that are additionally available in that regard is increasing every single day. As my understanding, WU, increases, with it automatically comes additional ways of being of service to others. So as long as I'm here in time on this planet earth, I'm here to be of service.

John: So how do you see why Qigong Master Qinyin needs to require students more serious and strictly?

Ron: It appears to be strict, and it is strict. And it is an expression of love. And it is an opportunity for a student to focus in on a particular aspect, a particular practice, a particular piece of information or a particular time during this 72 hour Qigong retreat when something is up. If master knows something is up, she is going to want you to get it. Well, she's got to get your attention. So she is going to talk in a different way. There are many different ways to learn, and to connect the information - as I have connected the information, my awareness opens. So I understand that master wants everybody that comes to open as much as possible.

John: So what do you think is the real help that can really solve people's physical and/or problems? What would such a real help look like?

Ron: Well, you know, I mentioned earlier that changing one's mind is really where it starts. Finding a real master, you know, is another story. I mean you could go into a deep mountain in India, or China, or Tibet or anywhere in the world, and spent 100 lifetimes and not finding a real master. You got to find a real master. Then when you do, when you have that blessing, then you have to empty your cup. You got to empty everything that you think you know about how life works, and how energy works, and how healing works, and what the possibilities are, and you have to be totally open and receptive with your mind and your heart. You need to open your heart and change your mind. You have to be willing to take in new concepts, new ideas, new possibilities in a fresh way like a 6 or 7 year old child.

John: Ok, that makes perfect sense. I agree. And so how do you understand that the 72 hour retreat can build a good foundation towards heavenly ladders leading to enlightenment?

Ron: More deep philosophy, John. I love this. The 72 hour Qigong retreat - when you see what happens in 72 hours with the first 24 being the bigu part of the retreat, the changing of one's mind, the possibilities opening up of being able to take nutrients in directly from the universe without having to digest solid bulky food through your body. The Special Abilities Classes I and II that teach people, allow people to start doing healing and remote diagnosis just in the palm of their hand, talking to the spirits of trees, and being able to take it to the ocean, the mountains, the rivers and the rocks, and anything. It is huge, and it is only the tip of the iceberg. What is really available in term of getting the foundation and balance at this level of information, to be able to then go step by step to higher levels of information, and more special abilities classes, which again is not necessarily the goal to have special abilities. It is a way of testing comprehension and understanding etc, and to be able to see, you know, as people get more power, just how attached they are to that power. The more attached you are, the less you are going to get, and the more dangerous it is, the more you become attached. So I understand that as higher level as the 72 hour retreat, the amount of time it saves, and the amount of money it saves from taking so many lower level classes, it really is a foundation for something much much bigger.

John: Ok, thanks. So how do you understand that the Qinway Qigong system has a great potential to teach and really help human being get to the next step of their spiritual development?

Ron: My understanding to this is really more a gut feeling and a heart connection than anything. I have been through classes with teachers, and the promises that are written down, the material that is made available has been fantastic. And it delivered less, many times for a lot more money than I've got in the 72 hour retreat. What I have learned to do over the course of time is to really - it boils down to "do I get a yes, or do I get a no?" If I really listen to the sound of truth, the sound of God, the sound of the higher beings, the sound of the universe, resonating through this body with this karma, and with this dharma. I have to follow my yeses. That is what I'm doing here with Qinway, because I'm following a big yes.

John: What do you think is the blockage that prevents some Americans from catching this good opportunity of learning such, you know, a great system? What do you think how we can open their mind to attend Qinway Qigong's great program instead of spending time and money on fitness or hospital?

Ron: This is a very good question. I think that one answer is that people are going to do what they need to do. And people's belief systems are the software of the body. So a lot of people want to see evidence. Well, evidence is really a lower level information. I think that people really need to simply ask whether this is a yes or no for them. And put the money question aside, put the 72 hours aside, put the time that it may take out of your schedule to practice the qigong aside at first, and just ask if this is a yes or is this a no for me. Take it one step at a time, step by step. And if you get a yes, then the rest of the questions - you know, do I have the $3,600? Well, you may have it now, you may not have it now. If you don't have it now, then you might need to start planning to save it like you would for a new car or a new home. You know, the cost that it takes to put a kid through college is close to $100,000. You know, I paid $25,000 to go to Tony Robin's courses that aren't, you know, 1/100 as powerful as this. However, at the time, the Tony Robin's courses were good for me. I'm ready for something that is more substantial now. I'm interested in something with some real power and the loving compassion. To have compassion and love is good, and without power, how are you going to get anything done? So while it is good at a certain level, I want to operate at a different level for people. Why? Because it is available. It is really available here at Qinway.

John: Ok, another question - what do you think virtue and WU belong to high level practice?

Ron: Ha! This is going to be a fun one. To even talk about virtue is, I don't right. To accumulate virtue is a mistake. I think that it is ok to talk about it a little bit in that - as people perform for virtue they are actually producing very little virtue. As people perform because they just have to do it, because they want to do it, because it is something that they are drawn to do, it is something that they get a big yes on, probably produces more virtue. However, any virtue that is produced really needs to be released also. By the time you are aware that you are producing or accumulating virtue, it needs to be let go of immediately. It has to be a desire or willingness to let go of it. This understanding, this WU, is something that can come over time. It can also come immediately. This has to do with the company. I used to call it good company. I want to be with good company, which means people that I play with, my teachers. I want them to be good company, to have this high level information and practices available. Whether grandmaster actually said anything or not, just sitting in a room with a grandmaster of her caliber would automatically change people's lives. This is WU in action, in a silent way, which I know it's true.

John: Ok, that is a good point. So what do you think that Qinway Qigong System can bring a big revolution to Americans in many areas?

Ron: It can actually turn the American healthcare system into a real balanced system. Think about a stool. Most stools have 3 legs or 4 legs. A stool with 4 legs, you take one leg away, and it is going to be wobbly. You take a 3 legged stool one or two legs away, it is not a stool, it doesn't work. While the American healthcare system has some of the most advanced scientific understanding available to it, where is the ancient wisdom? I mean, native ancient wisdom serves our species for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, and now just because we know some science, we are going to throw out the ancient wisdom? What about bringing it together, and integrating it? There might be times when the new science is a best for people at different levels, and the other, the ancient wisdom, the energy wisdom, the utilization of qi is also something that is extremely important. I think that the American healthcare system, the only way it is going to survive the skyrocketing cost of healthcare, is to bring in ancient wisdom, and integrate it into the American healthcare system.

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